Self-Care for Therapists: Proven Strategies to Manage Work Stress

As therapists, we spend so much time caring for others that our own self-care can easily slip through the cracks. But keep in mind that you can’t drive others where they need to go if your own tank is empty. Without managing our own stress, we risk burnout, compassion fatigue, and ultimately, less effective work with our clients. Let’s break down the different aspects of self-care and what some of our therapists recommend.

What Self-Care Is (and What it Isn’t)

Self-care is often mistaken for the occasional indulgence—a massage, a long bath, a big vacation, or a special treat. While those things can be nice, true self-care for therapists is about consistency. It’s about creating habits that support our emotional, mental, and physical well-being. This could mean setting clear work-life boundaries, engaging in activities that bring joy (like dance workouts or journaling), or simply being mindful of self-talk. Small, intentional acts make a big difference over time.

Listen to our interview with therapists about how they manage stress and burn-out:

How to Know if You’re Burned Out as a Therapist

Therapist burnout doesn’t happen overnight… it builds up over time from work stress for therapists. A little bit of stress is normal and can even be motivating. But if you’re noticing some of the following signs, it’s probably time to make some changes:

Feeling emotionally drained after most sessions
Increased irritability, cynicism, or feeling detached from clients
Decreased empathy or feeling numb to clients’ experiences
Difficulty concentrating or making decisions
Questioning your effectiveness as a therapist (“Am I even helping anyone?”)
Chronic fatigue, even after a full night’s sleep
Frequent headaches, muscle tension, or stomach issues
Trouble sleeping (either too much or too little)
Procrastinating on case notes, emails, or session prep
Avoiding certain clients or feeling dread before sessions
Increased self-isolation or withdrawing from colleagues
Difficulty “turning off” work thoughts, even after hours
Noticing a drop in job satisfaction (feeling stuck, unmotivated, or indifferent)
Finding it hard to be present with clients or feeling “checked out” in sessions
Thinking about leaving your job more often than usual

One of the most impactful books I have read in my career was “Trauma Stewardship” by Laura van Dernoot Lipsky. This book discusses the physical, mental, and emotional toll of working with trauma or in helping professions. It helped me to recognize my own “warning signs” and how to do this work well without sacrificing my own mental health.

Checking In With Yourself

Regular self-assessments can help prevent burnout from creeping up unnoticed. Tools like the Professional Quality of Life (ProQol) scale can offer insight into stress levels, compassion fatigue, and overall well-being. It’s easy to keep pushing forward without stopping to check in, but a little self-reflection can go a long way in maintaining a sustainable career. In our podcast episode, Shelby shares that this is an assessment she regularly gives to the clinicians at her clinic.

Let’s face it: It’s easy to get so caught up in taking care of others that we forget to check in with ourselves. If you’re feeling stretched thin, overwhelmed, or just off, these questions can help you assess where you’re at and what might need to change. Feel free to just think on these questions, journal about them, or use them with your clinical teams:

Am I practicing what I encourage my clients to do for self-care?
Do I feel guilty when I take breaks or set boundaries?
Am I dreading sessions, procrastinating, or zoning out more than usual?
Do I feel like I can actually keep up with my workload?
How often do I check emails or think about work after hours?
Do I have a solid routine to decompress after work, or do I carry everything home with me?
Do I still find meaning in this work, or does it just feel like a burden?
Does my workplace support my well-being, or is it a major source of stress?
Does my workplace align with my values, or do I feel disconnected from its mission?
If a friend told me they were this stressed at work, what advice would I give them?

Effective Self-Care Strategies for Therapists (Tips from Our Therapists)

From small resets between sessions to after-work rituals that help create a clear boundary between work and personal life, these strategies can make a real difference in managing stress and preventing burnout. Let’s talk through some tips from our therapists.

The Power of After-Work Rituals

Having a clear transition from therapist mode to personal life can make a huge difference. Whether it’s listening to music on the drive home, taking a walk, or changing into comfy clothes, these rituals help signal to your brain that the workday is over. Without them, it’s easy to let the emotional weight of the job bleed into personal time, leaving little space for rest and recovery.

In the podcast interview, Taylor talks about having a moment on her way home where she stops thinking about work:

“I’ve learned something from other therapists—they find a specific place on their drive home where they mentally stop working. For me, when I lived in Lee’s Summit, there was a ‘Welcome to Lee’s Summit’ sign. It’s kind of weird, but every time I saw it, I started telling myself, Alright, no more work. That sign became my boundary. Just like in EMDR, where we talk about containers, I imagined leaving all the stress, frustrations—even the victories of the day—right there. That was my mental shift: I’m home now, it’s time to focus on my personal life.”

Practical self-care practices for mental health professionals during the work day

Self-care doesn’t have to wait until after work. Small moments throughout the day, like stretching between sessions, taking deep breaths, and stepping outside for a few minutes can help maintain energy and focus. Even something as simple as having a mindful moment between clients can reset your nervous system, keeping you present and engaged.

I know, it’s easy to resort to doomscrolling on your phone, but when was the last time you finished that and felt better? Here are some alternate ideas for workplace self-care strategies:

Deep breathing exercises – Try box breathing (inhale for 4, hold for 4, exhale for 4, hold for 4).
Progressive muscle relaxation – Tense and relax different muscle groups to release tension.
Grounding techniques – Use the 5-4-3-2-1 method to refocus on the present moment.
Desk stretches – Stretch your neck, shoulders, and wrists to release tension.
Take a short walk – Even a quick lap around the office or outside can help reset your mind.
Watch a short funny video or share a joke with a coworker. (I am totally guilty of watching a Nate Bargatze stand up show in between sessions before when in need of a “palate cleanser”)
Organize your workspace – A clutter-free desk helps reduce mental clutter.
Prioritize tasks – Use the Eisenhower Matrix (urgent vs. important) to reduce overwhelm.
Take a nap—I’m convinced that at some point every therapist has taken a nap on their couch.

During the podcast episode, Taylor added:

“Sometimes we overcomplicate self-care. At its core, it’s about basic human needs—eating meals, sleeping, drinking water, moving your body. These things feel like givens, so we devalue them, but they’re essential. During my day, I make sure I have snacks, I drink water, and I pay attention to what I need between sessions. If I feel social, I chat with coworkers. If I need to decompress, I stretch or meditate.”

When Self-Care Means Quitting your Job

Not all burnout is personal—sometimes, it’s the environment.

Signs it’s time to leave your job as an act of self care.

If a workplace demands endless emotional labor without proper support, no amount of self-care will be enough. In some cases, the best self-care decision may be to seek a setting that truly values and supports your well-being.

Work-Life Balance and Setting Boundaries for Therapists

When I was younger, work-life balance to me meant working long hours, hustling to make enough money for big trips and taking PTO whenever I could. It felt like self-care in those moments was a one-off event, something that was planned in big bursts, like a vacation or a weekend getaway.

Now, as a parent, work-life balance has taken on a whole new meaning. It’s about scheduling my time around my daughter’s soccer games or my son’s daycare breaks. It’s no longer about sprinting to make a big event happen but finding a rhythm that works day to day. It’s more like a marathon now, sustaining a better pace so that I can show up for my family while still doing what I love professionally. Work-life balance and setting boundaries in my own therapy practice looks like:

Having firm boundaries on when I’m done with work (not feeling pressured to work until 8pm at night or come in on my day off)
Keeping work calls and emails to business hours, and not feeling like I need to answer on weekends or when I’m on PTO)
Not giving my personal contact information out to clients
Being intentional and choosy about the clients that I see (sticking to my niche)
Having coworkers I know that I can reach out to for consultation or venting
Having the flexibility to adjust my work hours or session times to better fit with my life.
Feeling supported by my boss and my employer to do these things.

Leaning on Support Systems

We preach the importance of support to our clients, but let’s not forget that we need it just as much. Having a therapist, peer consultation group, or trusted colleagues to debrief with can make all the difference when experiencing work stress and burn-out. Processing our own stressors in a safe space allows us to return to our work with clarity, perspective, and renewed energy. This is one of the things I love about being a group supervisor—getting to create a supportive space where we can lean on one another.

Conclusion

Taking care of yourself isn’t just about feeling better—it directly impacts the quality of care you provide. By making self-care and work-life balance a priority, we model healthy habits for our clients and create a career that is sustainable, fulfilling, and grounded in well-being.

Bottomline: therapy is a part of what you do, but it is not your entire identity. Be sure to dedicate time to things that you enjoy and bring you more balance.

Ready to dive in deeper? Listen to the whole podcast here.

Podcast Transcript:

Miranda: Welcome to the Therapist Thrival Guide! My name is Miranda. I’m a licensed clinical social worker, and I’m here with Shelby and Taylor. Today, we are talking all about self-care.

This might be a topic where you’re thinking, I’ve already learned about self-care, but we have so much great information for you—so many tips, so many warning signs—all the things. We’re going to jump right in, but first, I want Shelby and Taylor to introduce themselves. Shelby, do you want to go first?

Shelby: Sure! My name is Shelby Finley. I’m a licensed professional counselor in Missouri and a licensed clinical professional counselor in Kansas. I’m the clinic director for the Kansas City locations for Ellie. We have three locations in this area.

Part of the reason I joined Ellie was to take better care of therapists. I’m really excited to talk about self-care because, as a company, I kept wondering how we can truly pour into therapists. From there, it became about encouraging therapists to take care of themselves, which is why I brought Taylor on—to talk more about what self-care looks like for a therapist.

Taylor: My name is Taylor Magruder. I’m a provisionally licensed professional counselor in Missouri, and I’m a therapist at the Kansas City Stateline location. I work with adults (18 and up) on issues like anxiety, depression, ADHD, PTSD—all those kinds of things.

Miranda: Awesome. This topic is so important, especially this time of year. We just went through a lot of election stress with clients, and now we’re moving into seasonal affective disorder season.

As helpers, we go through our own struggles, but we’re also expected to show up for clients. Sometimes, we neglect ourselves and try to continually pour from a cup that isn’t being refilled. I’m so excited to talk about this because even if you’re listening and thinking, Don’t worry, I take bubble baths when I’m stressed or I go for a run after a hard day—great! But there’s always room for improvement when it comes to self-care, not just for ourselves, but for our families, our clients, and our employees. It’s absolutely crucial.

So, where do you want to start, Taylor? Do you want to dive into how to recognize when you need self-care? What are the warning signs of burnout?

Taylor: First off, I think it’s so funny that you mentioned self-care isn’t just bubble baths. That was literally one of the first things I wrote down when I was thinking about this! What self-care is not.

Bubble baths and face masks can be part of physical self-care, but it’s not limited to that. For me, when I’m approaching burnout or not taking care of myself as well as I should, my texts and emails start to pile up. I become a little avoidant. My to-do list gets longer, and I start feeling overwhelmed and resentful—kind of a woe is me mentality.

At some point, I have to stop and ask myself, What role am I playing in this feeling? Where am I not setting boundaries? Because even though I become avoidant, I’m also lacking boundaries and not being mindful about what I can realistically take on.

Miranda: When you say lacking boundaries, what do you mean?

Taylor: A lot of it is about saying no—to social invitations if I don’t have the energy, to clients who want to schedule more often than I have availability, or to requests that stretch me too thin.

I was telling Shelby that my own therapist has a pretty limited schedule, and in the past, it’s been tempting to schedule my clients during that time instead of prioritizing my own sessions. Eventually, I had to realize, This isn’t sustainable. If I keep making space for others but not for myself, something is off.

Miranda: That’s such a good point. When we talk about boundaries as therapists, I often think about how we tend to overextend ourselves for clients. I was talking to a supervisee recently, and he mentioned giving out his personal phone number to clients.

I get that he cares deeply and wants to be there for them, but I also want to make sure he’s protecting his own boundaries. One of the fastest ways to burn out is getting texts from clients at 10 or 11 p.m. saying they’re in crisis. Of course, we want to show up for our clients, but we also need to acknowledge that if we’re constantly on call, we’re going to end up exhausted, resentful, and unable to be effective.

Shelby: Exactly. There are two big reasons why holding that boundary is important. First, you’re taking care of yourself. Second, as therapists, we’re not supposed to create dependency in our clients.

If a client can only turn to you at 10 or 11 p.m., that’s a sign they need to build a stronger support system. Who else can they turn to? What natural resources do they have? They need to start growing their network, because as much as we care, we can’t be that one person forever. And like you said, Miranda, even on days off, if you get a text from a client, it suddenly feels like work is infringing on your personal time.

For me, not giving clients my personal number is a hard boundary. Everyone’s boundaries look different, but if someone is comfortable with that, I hope they have other boundaries in place to protect their well-being.

Miranda: Absolutely. When I think back to the most burnt out, unhappy, and anxious I’ve ever been in my career, it was right after undergrad when I worked as a case manager. We didn’t have work cell phones—we used Google Voice numbers that went straight to our personal phones.

To this day, I still have a visceral response when Thanksgiving rolls around because I remember three Thanksgivings in a row where I got crisis calls on my Google Voice number, which rang directly to my personal phone.

When I left that job, I promised myself I would never blur that boundary again. I need to be off the clock and unreachable sometimes. That’s why crisis care exists. As outpatient therapists, we’re not crisis responders, and we shouldn’t be expected to be.

Shelby, I love the point you made about making sure clients have a broader support system so they’re not always relying solely on their therapist.

Have either of you read Trauma Stewardship?

Shelby: Yes! I love it.

Taylor: Oh my gosh, me too! The author came to Kansas City a few years ago, and I got to meet her—she even signed my book. I was so excited.

I was just talking to a client about this book recently. I have a few clients in grad school training to become therapists, and I was telling them how Trauma Stewardship was life-changing for me. It breaks down secondary trauma, compassion fatigue, and burnout in such a powerful way.

Miranda: There’s one chapter I always recommend—even if you don’t read the rest of the book. It lists warning signs that you’re not being an effective therapist anymore because of secondary traumatic stress, compassion fatigue, or burnout.

The first time I read that chapter, I felt so called out. I recognized the avoidance you mentioned, Taylor. I also saw that sense of grandiosity—the belief that I’m the only one who can help these clients. That’s never true.

One of the biggest warning signs for me was a loss of creativity. When I stop painting, writing, or being creative in my personal life, it’s a red flag that I’m getting overwhelmed professionally. That book really helped me recognize my own warning signs and take action before I hit burnout.

I think it’s crucial to know your own warning signs and communicate them—to your partner, to your colleagues. I tell my coworkers, If you notice I’m buried in emails or staying late past the time I said I’d stop seeing clients, call me out. Because usually, that means I’m blurring boundaries or not prioritizing myself.

What other warning signs have you both noticed in yourselves?

Shelby: So I think something that I have to own is that some of my warning signs are embarrassing and disheartening to acknowledge. The fact that I don’t want to do things I normally enjoy, that I’m not seeing my friends as often, or even as a leader, when someone comes to me with a problem and my response is just “okay”—that’s minimizing. And I’m not proud of that. That’s a warning sign for me. When I don’t have as much empathy as I’d like or as much to give, I know I need to start pouring into myself. Because at that point, it’s not just impacting me—it’s impacting my team members, their clients, and it creates a trickle effect.

As a leader, it’s important to pour into yourself and also model self-care. Recently, I took a self-care day and told my team, “Hey guys, I’ve had a lot going on, so I’m taking a self-care day. Here’s who you can contact if you need anything while I step back.” I was grateful when my team responded with support, saying they were glad I was taking time for myself. That feedback meant a lot. I want my team to know I’m taking a step back for my well-being because modeling that is important. We all have crummy warning signs sometimes, and we have to own them. If someone brings a problem to me and I respond with “okay,” that’s a sign I need to check myself.

Miranda: Oh my gosh, that’s such a good example. I can think of times when I’ve done the same thing with my spouse. He comes home and says, “I had a bad day at work,” and I’m like, “Bet you didn’t have to make a CPS report today.” I’m so guilty of that.

Shelby: Same! When I worked in crisis, someone would say, “My boyfriend broke up with me,” and I’d think, “Yeah, but you’re not hospitalized, so keep going, sis.” That’s such a crummy response.

Miranda: Minimizing is a real warning sign that if you’re not taking care of yourself, you can’t have empathy for others. We need to be able to sit with someone struggling with a breakup and validate their pain just as much as we do for those in more immediate crisis.

Taylor: So what do you two do for self-care?

Taylor: Self-care is preventative, constant, and non-optional. It’s not just something to do when you’re burned out—it’s something to do all the time. For me, I have a ritual when I get home from work. I don’t do these things because I need them that day; I do them because I need them consistently. When I get home, I stretch for five to ten minutes. If I have more time, I’ll do a dance workout because I genuinely enjoy it. I danced growing up, and I realized I wasn’t feeling motivated by traditional workouts. But with dance workouts, I focus on the choreography, and it’s fun. At the least, I move my body in some way because we sit all day, and I need to reconnect with myself.

Miranda: Where do you find these dance workouts? Because I love this idea. Dancing is so good for mental health.

Taylor: I use Apple Fitness Plus. They have choreographed dance workouts, which I love because I get really into perfecting the moves. If I’m short on time, I’ll just put on my favorite pop songs, grab the TV remote, and dance around my living room.

Miranda: Full-on Lizzie McGuire moment.

Taylor: Exactly! My dog hates it, but I have fun.

Shelby: He’s getting a free concert—what’s his problem?

Taylor: Right?! I sing to him, and he just looks at me with his ears down.

Shelby: My after-work ritual is working out. If I sit on my couch, I’m not getting up again. So I take my dog for a walk as soon as I get home, then I change into gym clothes. If I put the effort into dressing for the gym, I’ll actually go. Another thing I do is check in with myself: Do I need people today, or do I need alone time? Some days, I’m all about socializing; other days, I just need quiet. I’ve even started doing diamond painting as a solo activity—it’s been fun making little gifts for my nieces and nephews.

Miranda: I get that. I’m an outgoing introvert. I like being around people, but I also need alone time to recharge. When I worked in child protection, I had a long drive home, and I didn’t realize how much that decompression time helped me until COVID hit. Suddenly, I was home all the time, surrounded by people, and I struggled. That’s actually why I got a dog—having a reason to take walks really helped. Even now, if I have a stressful day, I make sure to take a quick walk around the block. Just getting fresh air and sunlight can make a huge difference.

Shelby: That’s such a good point. We’ve talked a lot about self-care after work, but what about during the workday? Taylor, how do you handle those seven-session days?

Taylor: Sometimes we overcomplicate self-care. At its core, it’s about basic human needs—eating meals, sleeping, drinking water, moving your body. These things feel like givens, so we devalue them, but they’re essential. During my day, I make sure I have snacks, I drink water, and I pay attention to what I need between sessions. If I feel social, I chat with coworkers. If I need to decompress, I stretch or meditate. My physical therapist gave me shoulder exercises, and I make sure to do them because I carry so much tension there.

Shelby: Finding those little “work perks” is key. One of ours is having comfy couches in our offices. I went to a self-care CEU event recently, and they normalized things like turning off the lights and resting between sessions. At my first therapy job, I was scared to do that, but my supervisor told me, “You have 20 minutes before your next session—use it to reset.” That advice stuck with me, and now I encourage my team to do the same. If taking a quick break helps you show up fully for your next client, it’s worth it.

Miranda: Exactly. Self-care isn’t just about time off—it’s about what we do daily to sustain ourselves.

Taylor: So I’ve been like, okay, let’s turn this into something productive. Now when I get to this one stoplight, where I have service again, I can listen to music or call someone. I take those first few minutes to just decompress.

Miranda: Shelby, you made me think of a couple of different things, but that decompression time—yes, it’s so crucial. For me, in that job I was in, it was necessary. But also, let’s normalize not staying in jobs that require so much more self-care. Yes, we should be taking care of ourselves, but before I came to LA, I had so many jobs that took so much out of me.

And I think for those jobs, a long drive was really helpful because I needed that separation way more than I do now. Yes, self-care is crucial for any helping profession, but no amount of self-care is going to make a toxic job not suck. If you’re in a work environment where you’re not appreciated, underpaid, or just completely drained, self-care alone won’t fix that.

Also, let’s call out that changing jobs can be an act of self-care. You are a highly skilled, highly educated professional, and you deserve a job that prioritizes your mental health too. That’s crucial.

This is going to sound backwards, but I don’t need as much self-care as I used to in those really bad jobs—because being in a job that I love is also a form of self-care. That’s just super important, and it does exist for people.

Shelby: I think you bring up a good point. With clients, we give them all these coping skills, and they tell us they’re using them—but they’re still struggling. At some point, we have to ask: Okay, maybe it’s not you. Maybe it’s the relationship. Maybe it’s the job. Maybe it’s the city.

I remember my first job in community mental health. It was a 40-hour-a-week job, seeing clients back to back. And if you weren’t with a client, you were expected to jump into a group to hit your productivity. It was just constant. I was exhausted. It was the first job I had when I moved to Kansas City, and I wasn’t making any friends because I was so drained all weekend.

I realized, This is not sustainable. I didn’t know anyone in the city. I was lonely, but I didn’t have the energy to meet people. Eventually, I moved into a leadership role that gave me more capacity to pour into myself, but that initial experience really showed me the importance of environment.

Miranda: I think you’re right. At some point, you have to ask yourself: Is it that I’m not taking care of myself, or is my environment just not set up for me to thrive? And if it’s the latter, what needs to change?

So, Shelby, you mentioned the ProQOL—did I say that right?

Shelby: Yeah, that’s how I say it.

Miranda: Could you give a little background? You started talking about how this is a tool you use with the therapists who work for you. Can you tell me more about the ProQOL and how you actually use it?

Shelby: Yeah! So, it’s the Professional Quality of Life survey, and it measures three things: burnout, compassion fatigue, and secondary trauma.

I think it’s great—it’s somewhere between 20 and 40 questions. People can take it online quickly or print it out, score themselves, and see where they’re at in those three areas.

Something we’ve all been saying, but maybe not explicitly calling out, is that we have to keep assessing ourselves. Just like our clients need to check in on their mental health, we, as therapists, have to do it even more. If we’re not taking care of ourselves, it trickles down.

This survey is a great way for me, as a leader, to encourage my team to check in. I send it out once a quarter via email, with both a printable version and a link to take it online. I don’t ask them to share their scores, but I let them know: If you want to talk, I’m here.

Therapists often prioritize everyone else over themselves, and I see it as my responsibility to make sure they’re checking in on themselves. Honestly, I can’t even remember where I first learned about the ProQOL, but it’s stuck with me as a leader.

Some therapists have even shared with me, Hey, since coming to LA, my compassion fatigue score has dropped five points. That’s when I know the change in environment was what they really needed.

Miranda: We’ll share a link to the ProQOL in the description. I think everyone listening should take it—just as a self-inventory to check in with yourself.

Maybe you’re recognizing some warning signs in yourself. Maybe you’re realizing you’re more burned out than you thought. Having an assessment like this can be so valuable.

Are there any other tools you all use to encourage therapists to take care of themselves? Or things you’re doing for your clients—or even yourself?

Taylor: There’s this app that one of my clients told me about called How We Feel. The whole purpose is to track your emotions, practice identifying them, and become more aware of them overall.

You can set it to send reminders however often you want. I have mine set for twice a day—just a little check-in. It asks, How are you feeling? Then it gives you a list of emotions, complete with definitions, which I love.

I think we often overgeneralize—I feel stressed. I feel overwhelmed. But why do you feel that way? Breaking it down into more specific emotions helps you understand what you actually need.

The app also provides coping skills and emotion education videos, and it’s completely free—no subscription or anything.

A lot of my clients love data, so they like that the app has an analysis section where it tracks trends. You can journal a little when you check in, noting who you’re with, where you are, and what you’re doing. It even connects to a Fitbit or a cycle-tracking app.

Over time, it shows patterns—like, Why am I marking myself as anxious every morning? What’s going on then? That insight can be really helpful. Honestly, almost all of my clients who’ve tried it have loved it.

Miranda: That’s really cool. I’ll include a link to that as well. Anytime we find resources that work for clients, that’s great—but when they help us gain more insight into ourselves, that’s even better.

Any last thoughts before we wrap up?

Shelby: The biggest rule—it can’t be said enough—is that every good therapist should have a therapist.

It’s like personal training. You might know how to work out, but a personal trainer keeps you accountable. I always have a gym buddy—if I don’t, I’ll make excuses. But if someone’s waiting for me? I’ll show up.

It’s the same with therapy. Even if you’re just checking in biweekly or monthly, having someone to hold you accountable for your self-care is invaluable. I’ve had clients come in just for that—a check-in buddy to say, Hey, are you actually taking care of yourself?

What we do is really hard. It’s also really unique. I think about some of my days and realize, No one else had that kind of conversation at work today—but I had it twice.

We do such a challenging job. We pour into others all day long, so we have to double down on how we pour into ourselves.

Miranda: Thank you so much for joining. This has been such a great episode—I’ve gotten so many good ideas, and it’s been a great reminder of how I can better check in with my supervisees.

Thank you both for being here, and thanks to everyone for listening!

Shelby: Thanks for the invite—we appreciate it!